Buick Lesabre owners have reported 10 problems related to ignition module (under the electrical system category). We reserve the right to edit a comment that is quoted or excerpted in an article. Albin Moore. This reviewer was particularly pleased with this scan tool’s ease of use. Typically, when an ignition control module of this type fails it would be one of the three drivers (transistors) within it that controls a specific ignition coil giving up. The typical ignition system circuit diagram for the 1992-1995 4.3L, 5.0L, and 5.7L 1500, 2500, 3500 Pick Up and Suburban can be found here: Ignition System Circuit Diagram (1992-1995 Chevy/GMC Pick Up And SUV) . The technical services group receives a fair number of complaints concerning damaged ignition coils due to heat shortly after the replacement of the original ignition coil or possibly repeated failure … Also, with the original 6 coils/plugs we replaced the computer in the car as well. Ignition coil failure is nothing new to the repair industry. even though I have returned 2 modules to MSD repair, I have never heard anything back after failure analysis. Also, with the original 6 coils/plugs we replaced the computer in the car as well. I still believe very strongly that MSD has a quality problem with their ignition module supplier. Single Specifications. Stalling: A failing ignition module can occasionally prevent the engine from getting spark, causing it to stall. Since I have verified the stalling problem is ignition related and is caused by the ignition coil failing when it gets hot, the next step is to find out why. Repeated ignition coil failure, 3 mechanics, no solution. The complaint is the engine cranks normally, but does not start. The car was loaded on a flatbed and hauled to a shop that specialized in VW, Mercedes Benz and Volvo vehicles. When this data was taken, the engine was at idle, and is reporting 10% correction on the scan tool. Index 1.) Figure 1 - Scope capture of the CMP voltage, ignition coil current & fuel injector current. I bet that MSD just throws them away. Be sure to fix the root cause of the oil leak, so this problem does not reoccur with the new ignition parts installed. Twin Specifications. Sudden stalling of your engine when you are speeding up or failure to start the engine after repeated attempts are some of the major indications of problems. I had to put one in tonight while at a cruise in. The correction for this issue becomes the replacement of the failed component. Ford relocated them to the inner fender in a finned aluminum heat-sink to keep them cooler and last longer. I can understand it having one ignition coil failure, but not three. What . But like any machine, the ignition module too is susceptible to wear and tear and regular care and maintenance is needed to avoid problems. The typical wiring configuration for a two coil-on-plug assembly includes battery power supply and the direct control circuit (trigger) of The last data block, 32 tells the final story. How often is heard “I bought a new amplifier but the engine is still faulty!” The … In some vehicles, A/C condensation can build up and drip directly onto ignition coils, filling up spark plug holes with … The next thing is in data block 31, field 1 and 2. Please also check out the statistics and reliability analysis of the 2006 Chevrolet Cobalt based on all problems reported for the 2006 Cobalt. However, your vehicle service manual may provide instructions on how to test your particular module. Rcexl Ignitions Ver 2.0 INSTRUCTIONS Thank you for purchasing our Rcexl Ignition! The story of the problem started out about 6 months earlier. Data block 31, fields 1 and 2 are very close to each other and data block 32 fields 1 and2 are right where they are supposed to be. One cylinder is on its compression stroke and the other is on its exhaust stroke. It may be easy to assume that the replacement coil failure was due to poor quality or design of the replacement coil, but the answer always goes down a different path. With the new timing belt installed and the distributor properly installed, the P0341 DTC is gone. Normally, car ignitions won't generate much more than a 300V spike and to demonstrate this here's another picture taken from this site: - That site also explains something else which may have resulted in the failure of the IGBT. 4.8 and 6 Volt NiCd/NiMh Packs. I have added a ballist resistor, this … max., as ordered Ignition trial follows prepurge; spark on until lightoff or lockout; pilot valve closes on lockout. the air fuel ratio is too lean; or 3.) 6.4 Volt Li-Fe(A123) Packs III.) Since November 2014 I have replaced it three times. Figure 5 - Crankshaft timing belt sprocket with the locating lug broken. (cranking buddy not shown—see “Victoria’s Secret” catalog models for suggestions for a helper.) melted or physically damaged by heat. Repeated glow plug failure. He had reused the original module when the engine was replaced. The coils are inexpensive, so I would not hesitate to replace one with marginally low resistance. … © 2021 Endeavor Business Media, LLC. Repeated ignition coil failure, 3 mechanics, no solution. Ignition modules come in more than one configuration and size, depending on your particular car make and model. Any time I am confronted with a problem like this, I will ask myself what has changed? Can you tell why my control module keeps failing? The haunting question is what is causing this car to destroy its ignition coils? the ignition module; see the Electronic Ignition Service Manual, form 70-6604. In Figure 7 data block 2, the last two fields, injection timing and mass air flow sensor data should both be very close to each other. A bad module may pass a … Photo 7. HIGH HUMIDITY OR DRIPPING WATER Over time, dripping water or high ambient humidity can create unwanted electrical paths on the module circuit board, causing the module to fail. … However, your vehicle service manual may provide instructions on how to test your particular module. I have replaced the cap, coil, and alternator. This makes me kick myself in the back side, since I did not take a look at the fuel trim at all. If you need to test the 7 pin (older) ignition module, the following tutorial will help: How To Test The Ignition Control Module (2.8L V6 GM). the coil driver is leaving the coil on too long. Usually the cause of failure is an ignition coil that is shorting-out or drawing too much current. Its ignition control module is failing. The ignition system on this engine is a distributor ignition system with the CMP (Camshaft Position Sensor) housed inside of the distributor. Based on the two shafts’ position, the electronic ignition module triggers the appropriate ignition coil, which directly fires the associated spark plugs. 3. Recent ignition components, even supposedly genuine ones, have been known to fail and a common failure seems to be the rotor arm tracking down to ground. Took it to three different mechanics so … Clear Fault Codes in Brake Electronics Control Module, then exit out of the Control Module. the ignition is ON when you’re cranking during test-ing. Many of these problem vehicles come from other shops and many of the vehicles have been … In this case, we may fix spelling and punctuation. A bad module may pass a … While most comments will be posted if they are on-topic and not abusive, moderating decisions are subjective. My car wouldn't start and I already knew what it was. Single Specifications. The secretive Ignition Amplifier with a typical life-time of 60-100,000 miles is too frequently responsible for scaring average RV8 home enthusiasts into willy-nilly replacement when faults occur for which it is simply not responsible! Always check the condition of the spark plugs before replacing an ignition coil. Make sure the transformer has adequate VA. The ignition module requires at least 0.2 A at 24 Vac. Following a logical process helped break this Cabrio's bad habit. At times, the codes must be cleared before the engine will restart. 7.4+ Volt Li-Poly Packs. If no, replace ignition control module. III.) At this point I am keeping a spare module in the glove box so I made it home. Since there have been multiple coil failures, we can rule out No. to use an ignition ballast resistor will eventually destroy the UNILITE® Ignition Module. truck will run find, shut it down and it will not refire. Something has caused the coil on time to suddenly increase to the point that would overheat an ignition coil. even though I have returned 2 modules to MSD repair, I have never heard anything back after failure analysis. The most recently reported issues are listed below. Ignition Module problem of the 2006 Chevrolet Cobalt 9. The vehicle was test driven for a few miles; the engine runs good, although it seems to lack power especially at high RPM. My next question was what is causing the PCM to suddenly increase the on time of the coil, causing it to self-destruct? Car won't start: An engine needs four basic things to run: fuel,compression, spark … If you need to test the 7 pin (older) ignition module, the following tutorial will help: How To Test The Ignition Control Module (2.8L V6 GM). This is something I have paid attention to on VW vehicles over the years, it’s just one of those quirky things I look at when working on VW MAF problems. After all, this vehicle is over 10 years old. something is causing the ignition coil to work too hard; 2.) Testing the Rover SD1 V8 Electronic Ignition Amplifier Module. The engine was started and allowed to run until it stalled. I checked the coils, replaced the ignition coil $400, checked the wires for shorts, replaced the harness and it still started and stalled. Why did your coil-on-plug module go bad? Diagnose the root cause of the ignition coil failure before replacing. Here is why!The leading cause of premature failure of an ignition coil is due to a worn or bad spark plug ignition cable.A bad spark plug ignition cable will have a much higher than normal resistance. Cleaning it usually gets it working again for a while although usually when they fail the engine starts to misfire before it dies … That leaves only fuel mixture and secondary ignition. But I don't know if it will for sure. Because of the volume of reader comments, we cannot review individual moderation decisions with readers. A careful look at the module's power, ground and crankshaft position sensor circuits, using a lab scope or graphing multi-meter as the vehicle is driven, may indicate unstable or intermittent readings, which are important for correct system operation. About four months later I had another ignition module failure. The module … Vehicles with problems like this, I call “sandwich vehicles” since there are so many problems all sandwiched one on top of each other and the only way you get to the bottom of the problem is by persistence and following a logical testing plan. A short in the igntion coil that lowers normal resistance in the primary windings will allow excessive current to flow through the coil, which may damage the ignition control module … Index 1.) At this point, the car was brought to my shop to be fixed. After talking to the vehicle owner,  I learned that the belt had never been changed but when I removed the sprocket I found the locating lug was broken in the gear. That didn't help so I replaced the ignition module again which solved the intermittent no spark condition. I have replaced the distributor with a new HEI and the … Dwell angle is the time period that the contacts are closed before opening to "generate" the spark. Sign up for Vehicle Service Pros eNewsletters. Instead, corrections will be made in a blog post or in an article. My question is, when the ignition module fails, does the vehicle not start or does it just run poorly? Hot surface ignitor systems work in various ways. Failure Date: 11/13/2013 My … Mounting: Mounts … The Thick Film Integrated Ignition Modules TFI's were notorious for overheating and failing when they were mounted on the distributor body. While driving approximately 15 mph, the vehicle stalled without warning and failed to restart after several attempts. I have begun to accept that every 3 months or so it will die on the road, which has happened about four/five times now I think. Failure Date: … My gut feeling is the P0102 code is set by the engine not breathing properly. If this ignition attempt is unsuccessful, one more retry will be made before lockout. In the most severe instances, the high voltage can seek ground through the ignition controller—either a free-standing ignition module, or the ignition “driver” inside the PCM. Don't include URLs to Web sites. These two Ignition Control (IC) signals contain the data the ignition module needs to be able to know the exact moment to start switching on and off the primary current of the ignition coils that are sitting on top of it. Should the plastic insulation overheat and allow the winding to touch itself, its electrical resistance will be less from end to end (imagine a Slinky with the paint wearing thin, allowing the metal coils to touch each other). The most recently reported issues are listed below. In researching this coil driver, I found it is a “smart driver” and has the ability to report back to the PCM things like misfires and KV demand so the PCM can make adjustments to the control of the ignition coil. The ignition trial, shutoff, wait cycle repeats until the pilot lights or the call for heat ends. When it comes to an ignition coil failure there are only three things that come to my mind; 1.) 7.4+ Volt Li-Poly Packs. the resistance in the secondary is too high; 2.) If you use a ballast resistor, connect to 12 volt side of … I also hooked a voltage probe to the CKP and CMP sensors. 15 or 90 sec. To avoid any future issues, fit the supplied replacement GOSS ignition coil that comes in the IM068 kit, regardless of the … Any time I hear something like this, my mind always wonders if the problem is really an ignition coil or is the defective ignition coil a product of something else that is causing the ignition coil to fail. I then had 12V on the signal wire from the ignition coil, so the PCM is in charge of pulling the circuit low to trigger the coil. According to the vehicle owner, the timing belt had never been changed and this part had never been taken off the engine. The engine and drivetrain are the most dependent on the ECU. Terms of Service. All rights reserved. Yes, at 90 sec. VW does a great job of giving many PIDs of actual and specified. III.) This causes an increase in electrical current, which stresses the driver/transistor, causing it to fail. Since this engine has had some work done to it, I want to verify a few things. The data is Figure 8 tells the rest of the story. During the following crankshaft revolution, they reverse roles. In this case, the ignition coil is overheating, and then the coil driver goes and loses its mind and turns the coil on way too long, resulting ultimately in the engine stall. 2.) The Thick Film Integrated Ignition Modules TFI's were notorious for overheating and failing when they were mounted on the distributor body. This fuel trim is not like generic long term and short term — it is the actual correction at idle in field 1 and the actual trim off idle in field 2. Ignition, wait, retry repeats until pilot lights or system is shutdown manually. Basically, there is an open in the secondary circuit or a cross fire occuring. Most common areas to look are at the A/C lines near the compressor, Transmission mount, and Transmission lines. Most auto parts stores will test the module for you free of charge. Acceptable Use. Diagnosis by the engine installer, was a bad ignition module. Cleaning it usually gets it working again for a while although usually when they fail the engine starts to misfire before it dies … A faulty ignition module can affect ignition timing, resulting in an engine that misfires and runs rough. I have had too many failures and have read about too many failures online for these to be random events. This is a little higher than normal although this in itself shouldn’t cause coil failure. Thus the two Ignitions coils start to spark away. Any time you see those two together, pay close attention. If yes, go to STEP #4. At this point, I have my first test results to find a direction. Selecting a power source. In this case the NEW means Never - Ever - Worked. The cause of an ignition control module failure is often associated with age and damage from heat buildup. The flywheel inspection plug is already missing so it is easy to turn the engine and line up this mark. A 2001 VW Cabrio ate ignition coils like my grandkids eat M&Ms. The engine may also run well at low speed, but won’t accelerate well. I.) If the plug gap is too wide, the new coil will … The waveform shows the ignition coil current following the command from the PCM. Trying to relate this to long term and short term in OBD2 generic will cause you to age very quickly. This article highlights two of the most common problems with the ignition system. I have now put in 8! If installed properly and maintained, you will receive many years of good flying. During the belt installation process, I removed the crankshaft sprocket. Some say that an … Worn switch contacts, temperature problems, or broken springs; can all cause the ignition switch to fail, preventing you from starting your car. This repair also lasted about 2 weeks, then the stalling problem reoccurred. I have brought it to three shops and apart from replacing either the whole module or all the coils no one can fix what is actually causing this. Some … You can replace the coil and it will fire right up eventually the module will fry and have to be replaced . At this point, the engine was in need of a timing belt so a new belt was installed. Or a bad connection at ecm. I have found that the most common cause of ignition module failure, across all brands, is a faulty secondary ignition system. If the replacement modules are failing in a manner that prevents the engine from starting, and the replacements are of good quality, I'd ask your service tech to take a very close look at the wiring connector that attaches to the module. The shop found the problem was caused by a bad ignition coil, so a new coil was installed. Removing the clamp from the distributor, I found the distributor had been installed in the wrong position, possibly in an attempt to eliminate the P0341 code. Connect the voltmeter's red lead to the pin and the black lead to any good ground, preferably on … We do not edit comments. The failure recurred on a separate occasion. My next question is, “What is causing this problem? The P0341 code is set by the CMP and the CKP signal correlation being wrong. II.) Going back to the stored diagnostic trouble codes, the P0341 has been fixed with the new timing belt. So, ignition switches are one of the most frequently used switches on a vehicle. I have a cam timing code so I want to address this first but I feel that I might be able to fix both the low MAF flow code and the CKP/CMP code at the same time. To answer this question, I unplugged the ignition coil and put a power and ground to the coil. Eight glow plugs are used as an aid to starting. For this, you need a 10-megaohm digital multimeter. delay, ignition starts again. contiued ignition coil and module failure on chevy 350 w/ hei ignition? Shortly after that, I had a problem where the car would turn over, but not start. Check to see if the voltage Is to high going to module and grounds which should be at stud at rear of engine may be corroded. The vehicles that used this module had a conventional hall-effect distributor with a separate coil. To avoid distracting other readers, we won't publish comments that suggest a correction. At shop #2, they replaced the ignition coil, put in a used ECM, installed a new distributor and put on a new MAF. *I repeat this is not related to the on going ignition switch recall on the 2005-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt models, this is another safety issue that needs to be addressed and investigated right away. Checking circuits 406 I/C control for 2/3 coil and 423 I/C control for 1/4 coil for open ckt; shorts to ground; or poor connections. We welcome strong opinions and criticism of our work, but we don't want comments to become bogged down with discussions of our policies and we will moderate accordingly. I now have 30K on the motor and it runs great except for one problem: The module in the HEI distributor keeps failing. Field 1 is showing fuel correction at idle from the oxygen sensor. S8600, S8610, S8660, S8670 INTERMITTENT PILOT MODULE 69-0463—03 2 Water … But I don't know if it will for sure. (Figure 5). I am so fed … Took it to three different mechanics so … Twin Specifications. There are only three wires to the ignition coil; power, ground and the trigger from the PCM. Goss recommends these issues be rectified as the cause may lead to repeat failure of ignition modules and other electrical components. Failure Date: 11/13/2013 My … The ignition is triggered from a CKP (Crankshaft Position Sensor) that reads from the reluctor on the crankshaft. Launch Tech USA: How to register on the X-431 PAD III V2.0, Launch Tech USA: How to read and write VIN using X-431 Torque, Launch Tech USA: Perform throttle body relearn using X-431 Torque, Launch Tech USA: Perform throttle body relearn using X-431 Throttle, Launch Tech USA: Perform steering wheel angle sensor learn using X-431 Torque, Launch Tech USA: Perform steering angle reset using X-431 Throttle, Launch Tech USA: Perform steering angle reset and G sensor calibration using X-431 Torque, Launch Tech USA: Perform special functions using the Nissan Rogue using X-431 Torque, Launch Tech USA: Perform special functions using X-431 Torque, Launch Tech USA: Perform a reset function on the X-431 Torque, Launch Tech USA: Perform a reset function on the X-431 Throttle. A new OE coil from the dealer was installed. EXCEPTION: If your vehicle is equipped with a HYFIRE ® Electronic Ignition Control or similar aftermarket ignition con- trol, use the wiring procedures stated in the instructions included with your ignition control. Here is why!The leading cause of premature failure of an ignition coil is due to a worn or bad spark plug ignition cable.A bad spark plug ignition cable will have a much higher than normal resistance. Figure 4 - The camshaft is 1-1/2 teeth out of time. On the road, poor ignition switch contacts could shut the engine off while driving, which could be dangerous. Brad Bergholdt is an automotive technology instructor at Evergreen Valley College in San Jose, Calif. You are solely responsible for your comments and by using TribLive.com you agree to our What has changed to cause this problem? My 2004 Buick LeSabre will not stop burning out ignition module coils. S8660D, S8670D Combination Natural or LP 45 sec. This system also uses a “waste spark” for one of the paired cylinders, pairing two pistons that will be at the top dead center at the same time : one at the end of its compression stroke, and the other at the end of its … 3. 1 on Toyota 1995 Camry 3.0L V6 SOLUTION Replaced PCM (Powertrain Control Module) its located behind glove box. Ignition module failure is no joke because it often leaves you stranded. Seven problems related to ignition module have been reported for the 2006 Chevrolet Cobalt. The CMP has no effect on the ignition system and is used only to identify cylinder 1 position. I have a 1950 GMC truck that I restored with a 350 small block v8 with a stock set-up. In fact, it totally slipped my mind. II.) Let’s take a look at a wiring diagram to see how this circuit is designed. the ignition coil has worn out from a long life. Now, without having to get out of the driver’s seat, you can watch these three data blocks, run the engine at different speeds and get a very good idea how the MAF is reporting the air being inhaled by the engine.