You don't have to be all that percise, but you need to know the ballpark numbers. Sodium citrate also seems tailor made for cheese emulsification. When sodium citrate is added to cheese and some liquid, the sodium citrate does a few important things. Cheese sauce puts the cheese in mac and cheese, it can convince kids to eat vegetables, and nachos would be naked without it. Has anyone tried to duplicate the cold pack sharpness and flavor with a sodium citrate base? I've only made this twice, both times using sharp cheddar and fontina for baked mac & cheese. Had huge ass hunk of mozzarella. A common food additive allows you to make silky-smooth mac & cheese at home. For my 60/40 sauce, 110 would represent 60% of the ingredients so we are looking at a total weight of 183 grams. I’ll just lurk in the comments adding my two cents. Add 1/2 tsp sodium citrate to bottom of a saucepan. Remember, they don't have to be a traditionally "melty" cheese; anything that isn't super-dry should work fine. Preheat the oven to its lowest temperature. In a pinch, or when my shredding arm got tired, I’ve made a sauce out of sliced cheese, but it takes a lot longer to melt into the sauce than if I shredded it. Thanks for sharing the results of your research. Out if the 5 or so times I have tried making dip, 2,maybe 3 times it has worked. When adding the cheese to the sauce you can use an immersion blender for a … My guess is your ratio is off. Instead of a splash of water, I added a thin cheese slice cut up into pieces to a 60/40. They make for kick-ass grilled cheeses. Bring it back to heat with another Tablespoon of Sodium Citrate. The first 90/10 sauce I made worked well as homemade cheese slices but even when warm, it didn’t get that runny. The final ingredient is the sodium citrate, which causes the cheese to stay together as it melts. Making rich and creamy cheese sauce is a basic cooking skill that pays off in countless ways. Check Eat Up! Voila! This creates a thick sauce, but not a block of homemade processed cheese—except at room temperature. Next, pick a liquid that will complement the cheese. The chemical formula for sodium citrate even spells out “nacho”. Don't just pour a bunch in, but give it a couple of splashes and work those in. 13. 2/04/16 7:00PM. They have worked out fine, though I like to add a stronger cheese or a packet of Sazon to punch up the flavor. I never make cheese dip without it. I always cut those cheeses with more mild varieties. Sodium citrate, which causes the cheese to stay together as it melts, is typically used in a 2.0% to 3.0% ratio of total liquid plus cheese weight. I wouldn’t feel right about posting to r/Cooking with such a long post without including a recipe, even a super simple one like a grilled cheese. Remember, they don't have to be a traditionally "melty" cheese; anything that isn't super-dry should work fine. But a general recommendation for making a cheese dip is to use 1 part cheese, 0.5 parts liquid, 2-3% sodium citrate (by weight). Then pick a cheese or two that will fit in that flavor profile. Thank you. If your cheese has a rind, do not include it in the sauce. When adding the cheese to the sauce you can use an immersion blender for a smooth sauce or a whisk for a stringier sauce. You’d have to fish it out and that gets messy. This includes a lot of crumbly cheeses like aged gouda and parmesan. But a good place to start is 1 pound of cheese to 1 cup of liquid, to 1 tsp of sodium citrate. Starch … I just heat the water, mix in the sodium citrate and then add the cheese. To make your own cheese fondue or queso, first choose the flavors you are aiming for. Depending on how firm you want your cheese to be you can use anywhere between 35% liquid for a semi-molded cheese, up to 120% for a thin and runny sauce. The fancy grocery store in my town has a pail in their cheese section. /r/AskCulinary provides expert guidance for your specific cooking problems to help people of all skill levels become better cooks, to increase understanding of cooking, and to share valuable culinary knowledge. 14 grams sodium citrate 3 cups (200 g) Gruyère cheese, grated 3 cups (180 g) sharp cheddar cheese, grated Instructions. I’d played around with them before, making sauces out of several different cheeses—my combo of smoked and aged gouda is still one of my favorites—but I’d never really explored the extent of it… until now. Stir immediately to combine. Any more and it can add a salty bitterness to the sauce, any less and you won't get the full effect. Thickening the sauce came next. That was back in my first few sauces, so I might have to experiment again now that I know a little more. If you add more liquid the cheese sauce will be thinner. And for a beer you generally want something bready and not hoppy or bitter. Image via Ecotouch. cheese slices, fondue, cheese dip, mac and cheese sauce, etc.? But even if I microwaved those spoonfuls on top of something, then tended to get tighter quickly as the cheese cooled off. I have been playing around with sodium citrate for making nacho sauce, and have had a fair bit of success. These cheese sauces can be cooled and reheated, molded and cut for cheese slices, used as fondues and quesos or added to macaroni and cheese. First off, the gelatin trick is genius. The final ingredient is the sodium citrate, which causes the cheese to stay together as it melts. Sodium citrate magically helps create perfect melty cheeses out of almost any kind of cheese. 1. […] main culinary use is to make baller melty cheese sauces out of any cheese you want (Check out this recipe). I apologize for how long-winded it became. When you make a cheese sauce, the cheese will melt, but sometimes has a grainy texture. The biggest discovery I’ve made regarding these sauces came in changing their thickness after I made them. You cannot substitute citric acid for sodium citrate in this recipe. My god, it was bitter. To make your own cheese sauces first choose the flavors you are aiming for. As a specific example, to make a tasty cheese slice: Cheese plus 120% liquid or more - continues to become thinner and thinner. Behold: I like a sodium citrate level of at least 2%. If it can melt, you can turn it into a sauce. When adding the cheese to the sauce you can use an immersion blender for a smooth sauce or a whisk for a stringier sauce. I often use a crockpot to keep the sauce melted for parties, that way you can just leave it out on the counter. This can be great as it won’t harden as much at room temperature, but it dilutes the flavor. Then pick a cheese or two that will fit in that flavor profile. The anti-caking agent doesn’t change the flavor or consistency of the sauce as far as I could tell. I'd like to use it to dip nachos in, but the cheese gets to the point I have to scoop the nacho chip in rather than dip it. (The precise temperature depends on the type of gelatin and the amount used.) Ingredients Kosher salt 1 pound (450g) elbow macaroni 5 tablespoons (75g) unsalted butter, divided 4 teaspoons (20g) sodium citrate (see note) 1 1/2 pounds (680g) grated sharp cheddar … Next, pick a liquid that will complement the cheese. Can anyone share the proper volume / weight ratios when using sodium citrate for different applications i.e. Amazing. Just last night I tried some mozzarella. Some common liquids are beer, wine, cider, stock, milk, or juices. That's it. Press J to jump to the feed. Give it a stir and then spread it on one side of each piece of bread. They can make everything so easy though, and come at budget-friendly prices to boot. Used a cup of chicken broth, 4 cups cheese, 1 tap SC. I have a bag of sodium citrate sitting in the back of my pantry forgotten from a few years back. You generally want around 2 to 3 percent of sodium citrate per sauce. 1 cup Whole Milk. Sodium citrate is a sodium salt of citric acid, which is found naturally in citrus fruits. They can be made with stock or other flavorful liquids, just make sure to remember the flavor profile of the cheese. 5. As an experiment, I added a chunk of it to a bowl with a splash of water and microwaved it for 20 seconds. 3. After that, I stuck with water, though I played around with seasoning. Can't remember where I copied this from, but its what I keep as a reference: The thickness of the sauce will depend on the ratio of liquid to cheese. I made one batch with Lagunitas Hop Water, a NA beverage, and it turned out great. 2 g sodium citrate. I used Beecher’s New Woman for my most recent sandwich. Sodium citrate allows the proteins in the cheese sauce to become more soluble without lowering the pH of the sauce, which creates a smooth emulsion without curdling. Some common liquids are beer, wine, cider, stock, milk, or juices. ingredients (scale up or down) 100 g cheese (cheddar, Colby jack, etc) 50 g beer. Always shred your cheese before adding it to the pot. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Method. Next, pick a liquid that will complement the cheese. As the consistency can be changed after the fact, I stick with my 60/40 ratio. I made most of my sauces with water as the liquid, though I add a packet of Sazon to sauces made from mild cheese to punch it up. After my recent exploration, I learned how to change their consistency in both directions, but that comes later. That is because of the way the proteins bond with calcium in the cheese. A cup of shredded cheddar is about 4 ounces or around 110 grams. Brought boil, added SC, mixed, added, cheese, stirred. The secret ingredient for this nacho cheese sauce is Sodium Citrate, a commonly used ingredient in the molecular world for spherification. I have been playing around with the sodium citrate for a couple of weeks as well. 2. Since sodium citrate brings a salty, sour taste it's important to use appropriate proportions while keeping the flavor of the dish in mind. When you combine warmed liquid with a little sodium citrate, then add the cheese, the sodium substitutes for some of the calcium and the cheese breaks down better. You will need a scale to get the proportions right, but roughly two teaspoons of sodium citrate disolved in 1 1/4 cups heated milk or water, slowly add 4 cups grated cheese stirring all the while. It's typically used in a 2.0% to 3.0% ratio of total liquid plus cheese weight. Use half the amount of sodium citrate, say (I tend to use ~ 20g per pound of cheese if I recall correctly), and a little bit of corn starch, maybe some evaporated milk. At all. Any more and it will really become noticeable. You're done. Some common liquids are beer, wine, cider, stock, milk, or juices. water, beer, etc) to just cover the bottom of the saucepan. Next, pick a liquid that will complement the cheese. I’ll have to break it out and play around again. Thanks for posting your findings. Remember that it will thicken when it cools. Patrick Allan. Sodium citrate cheese sauces have been a particular focus. Depending on how firm you want your cheese soup to be you can use anywhere around 120% liquid for a heartier cheese soup, up to 175% for a thinner version. Fuck I love this I’ve done my own experiments but am far too lazy to type something like this up. Simply blend the grated cheese of your choice (we use cheddar) into water that has sodium citrate dissolved into it, and the most gooey, smooth, and silky cheese sauce emerges. Cheese plus 85% to 120% liquid - thin cheese sauce, cheese foam, fondues, mac and cheese Cheese plus 120% liquid or more - continues to become thinner and thinner. That gives you 79/20/1 cheese/liquid/sodium citrate. Start by zapping a couple of tablespoons of a 60/40 cheese sauce. 12 ounces Grated Cheese. Then pick a cheese or two that will fit in that flavor profile. I get around this by adding a little bit of regular cheese to the sandwich. It's typically used in a 2.0% to 3.0% ratio of total liquid plus cheese weight. Some common liquids are beer, wine, cider, stock, milk, or juices. 2% is about 3 grams, just under a teaspoon. The thickness of the sauce will depend on the ratio of liquid to cheese. /r/Cooking is a place for the cooks of reddit and those who want to learn how to cook. It is a lot more available now. It not only acts as an emulsifier, helping fat and liquid to keep from separating as the cheese cooks, but it also has the unique characteristic of forming a stable matrix at room or fridge temperatures while also melting into a liquid at temperatures not too far above body temp. Sodium citrate, which causes the cheese to stay together as it melts, is typically used in a 2.0% to 3.0% ratio of total liquid plus cheese weight. I’ve turned this into my own Kraft singles by pouring a thin layer on a Silpat and cutting them into squares. Very nice post. Other liquids can work, but there are a few issues to consider. Leave it for soups. There is one unique ingredient in this dish that help the emulsification of the cheese and beer/water to make the dip super creamy. This cheese sauce is extremely simple. This is exactly what you want for cheese slices. Tastes better than sodium citrate. I believe it helps that cheese melt, but I’ve never made a control sandwich without it to test that theory. I've added sharper and stronger cheeses to my citrate sauces. As the cheese is heated, the proteins separate from each other and again act as emulsifiers, strengthening the emulsion by holding fat and water together. I used some good sharp cheddar for that sauce, but the milk and flour made it almost bland. Stir immediately after to combine. I made the mistake of choosing an IPA for a beer cheese sauce in my second attempt. The sodium citrate will bond with both the water and fats, that is the basis of the emulsion. I tend to use between 50% and 90% for dips, depending on what I'm dipping into it, but you can go as high as 120% for runnier dips used with bread or other delicate items. Unsurprisingly, adding more water gives the sauce a looser consistency. Reduce the heat to low and slowly whisk in 4 cups grated cheese until smooth. To make the sauce, in a large saucepan over medium, whisk together 11⁄4 cups whole milk and 10 grams sodium citrate (about 11⁄2 teaspoons) and bring to a simmer. I bought a pound of it on Amazon for less than $15. "This baked macaroni and cheese recipe harnesses the amazing emulsifying powers of sodium citrate, the same salt used to make American cheese so incredibly meltable. I'm a big fan of sodium citrate, but if you're finding it not to your taste, consider using multiple stabilizers. You can make a citrate sauce with very little water but unlike a cold pack, it will have the texture of velveta instead of easily being spreadable at room temp. A cup of shredded cheddar is about 4 ounces or around 110 grams. I haven't been able to find how many teaspoons of sodium citrate to use for 2-3 cups of cheese for mac-n-cheese. 14 grams sodium citrate 7 ounces Gruyère cheese, shredded (about 3 cups) 6 ounces sharp cheddar cheese, shredded (about 3 cups) Add it and any other additions you want and grill your favorite way. Milk seems to dull everything it’s alright for a Mac and cheese but when I make my sauce I want to use it for multiple things so I use water or beer. 2% is about 3 grams, just under a teaspoon. At 10%, it produces homemade Velveeta. The result is a stable, smooth melt with no lumps and no leaks—perfect for fondues and cheese sauces. Post anything related to cooking here, within reason. Most of my sauces use around 10-20 grams so it goes a long way. Could you please explain a little more in-depth specifically how to measure sodium citrate like in teaspoons or tablespoons and how much cheese per pound? Have you tried using milk/cream as the liquid component? I started with the ratios from Modernist Cuisine and quickly found their water content to be too high. At 2%, you won’t taste much of this unless you add a bitter liquid. Translated into real-world numbers that means 4 oz of cheese needs 2 oz of beer, and 2% sodium citrate means (4+2) = 6 * 0.02 => 0.12 oz. Stir until melted. To make your own sliceable cheese first choose the flavors you are aiming for. Next comes the non-processed cheese. Then pick a cheese or two that will fit in that flavor profile. This is basically a fancier version of my dad's recipe. I’ve made mild cheese sauces with Jack or cheddar to use as a base for these little chunks of fancy cheese. 10 grams Sodium Citrate. I don't think I did it any different than before when it's worked great, but every now and then, it seems like I would be better off just throwing a pound of cheese in the garbage. For my 60/40 sauce, 110 would represent 60% of the ingredients so we are looking at a total weight of 183 grams. I melt a sliver of butter in the pan for each side, but that’s just me. The making of Shake Shack cheese sauce uses heavy cream and cheese only to emulsify. The good news is that you can easily fix this sauce. The final ingredient is the sodium citrate, which causes the cheese to stay together as it melts. Taste and season with kosher salt and ground black pepper. This post kind of exploded on me but here is a brief summary: You can’t go wrong with 60/40/2 shredded cheese, water, and sodium citrate by weight, 60/38/2 if you are one of those people who need their percentages to add up to 100. Its annatto adds a nice color, too. It was a hit. Everyone likes to turn their noses up at preshredded cheese, and I try to avoid them. But it makes a nice sauce. Given the prices of cheese, it can be expensive to make a full sauce with a fancy cheese. I’ve made several sauces with them. Make a solution of it by whisking it into water or milk, then simply melt cheese into the solution; the sodium citrate will help keep the emulsion stable, just as sodium alginate does in Velveeta. They make great cheese slices for burgers or other sandwiches. I like to mix them with a less powerful cheese to give a good balance. Turn on the heat and bring to a simmer. The remaining 70 grams are water, around 4.5 tablespoons. The ratio of water to cheese will drastically change your sauce’s consistency. Double-extra bonus points for measuring in weight, and metric at that! I have a cheap $10 electric kitchen scale that I weigh my ingredients on which makes it easy as they are best done by weight. Add more broth or water to it. I’ve read you can make it without any liquid at all, but I’m not a madman. It was loose enough that if I took a spoon or two of cheese out of the refrigerated container, it would fill in the hole within several hours. Sodium citrate is a sodium salt that is found in citrus fruits and just a small amount makes a big difference. 4. ... Now your cheese sauce is smooth, creamy, and ready for game day. The small amount of the sodium citrate sauce on both pieces of bread helps the sandwich stick together before the other cheese melts. The sauce included both sharp and aged cheddars, compounding the mistake. They fill it with all the odds and ends of their $20 a pound cheeses. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskCulinary community. It is also used as a … At my preferred ratio, they are sticky and semisolid when refrigerated but liquify nicely when warm. The cheese sauce for this Mac and Cheese has only 3 ingredients. A sauce with just those cheeses is not just a flavor bomb, it is a flavor neutron bomb. It's probably more sodium citrate than you need, if I did this a lot I would experiment on backing it down because I can taste the stuff and I don't like it. My second and third batch were with shredded sharp cheddar cheese. Pour over tortilla chips and enjoy. Any more and it will really become noticeable. My son in law, who can't do anything in the kitchen, made some cheddar cheese sauce to put over baked potatoes. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. An 80/20 ratio sauce is less a sauce than a brick of homemade velveta. Add everything to a microwave-safe container and mix together with a fork. The sauce … To thin the sauce after it’s made zap a small amount for 20 seconds with a little water. It is a lightly carbonated water with slight hoppy and citrus notes that really worked well with pepper jack. The thickest sauce I make are generally 60/40 and those are sliceable at low temps. Sodium hexametaphosphate has been deemed as food-safe and is commonly used in many different products, including artificial maple syrup, cereal marshmallows, and even iced tea like Snapple and Lipton.. Fortunately, none of these salts are expensive. Once with milk but I didn't notice enough of a difference from water to try it again. Yes, I know using sodium citrate requires heat so it is not a cold pack, but what I am going for is the sharp flavor that is there with the extra sharp cold pack cheese. I figured some of you would be interested in finding out what I discovered. Even runnier sodium citrate sauces thicken up when cold. Like a lot of us, I’ve been spending a little more time in the kitchen recently. After refrigeration, it was tight enough that the hole made by taking out a spoonful would not fill in. With my base 60/40 sauce, it gets a bit too liquid on its own when heated. Sodium citrate has a bitter flavor. Cheese plus 85% to 120% liquid – thin cheese sauce, cheese foam, fondues, mac and cheese Cheese plus 120% liquid or more – continues to become thinner and thinner. The sodium citrate, which causes the cheese to stay together as it melts, is typically used in a 2.0% to 3.0% ratio of total liquid plus cheese weight. Remember, they don't have to be a traditionally "melty" cheese; anything that isn't super-dry should work fine. Sodium citrate is the salt from citrus fruit. Sodium citrate allows the proteins in the cheese sauce to become more soluble while lowering the pH of the sauce, which creates a smooth emulsion without curdling. Adding 0.8-1% sodium citrate to the total weight of […] It required a little more mixing, but the cheese slices incorporated into the sauce. Your insight on Sodium Citrate has intrigued my sense of a new food adventure. Make Silky Smooth Nacho Cheese at Home With Some Sodium Citrate. I’ve gone as low as 10% water. Instant Beer Cheese. a sprinkle of garlic powder. 5 g mustard. If you weigh the cheese and then add the liquid as a percent of the weight you will get: Cheese plus 0% to 35% liquid - firm, molded cheese, cheese slices, Cheese plus 35% to 85% liquid - thick and flowing cheese sauce, good for dips and quesos, Cheese plus 85% to 120% liquid - thin cheese sauce, cheese foam, fondues, mac and cheese. Press J to jump to the feed. The beauty of a sodium citrate sauce, is its ability to emulsify almost every cheese. They are great baked. Sure, a parmesan rind can add a lot of flavor to soups or even your sauce, but it doesn’t melt. Once it has the right consistency, go to town. Thank you for such an in depth report! I like thin slices of a flavorful cheese. The final ingredient is the sodium citrate, which causes the cheese to stay together as it melts. With shredded cheese, the actual sauce comes together in minutes. I first tried one out after being dissapointed with a traditional cheese sauce for cauliflower au gratin. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. It's typically used in a 2.0% to 3.0% ratio of total liquid plus cheese weight. Your favorite cheese, whole milk, and Sodium Citrate. A scale makes this a lot simpler and adds much more precision. A quick stir later and I had a more saucier sauce. It is also great to add when making macaroni and cheese. Remember, they don't have to be a traditionally "melty" cheese; anything that isn't super-dry should work fine. Microwave for 45 seconds. Any more and its edges started to bubble and spit. Can anyone tell me approximately how many teaspoons/tablespoons of sodium citrate I need to use for 2-3 cups of cheese… Not stay nice and velvety. Smoked or young gouda mixed with the old stuff and provolone or even a preshredded pack of ‘Italian’ cheese paired with parmesan if I’m slumming it. Pretend it is butter and give it a nice thin layer. Great post!If I had something to award it, you'd get it. Read on to learn how easy it is to make cheese sauce from scratch using simple ingredients and easy techniques. 1/2 lb Barilla Cellentani pasta. When I first dabbled in sodium citrate sauces, I stuck with a basic ratio of 38% water, 60% cheese and 2% sodium citrate. From what you've provided, you have 900 grams of cheese, about 230 grams of water and 12.3 grams of sodium citrate. Add sodium citrate at 2% to 3% of the combined weight of the cheese and the liquid. A common food additive, sodium citrate, keeps the water and fat emulsified while the cheese is melting, resulting in a smooth, creamy sauce without any added fat. I was doing 8 ounces of cheese to 1+1/8 cups of water to 10 grams of sodium citrate. August 18, 2020 at 12:16 pm All the measurements are in grams and I don't have a scale. To save everyone a click, their ratios (by weight) are: After some experimentation, not as well documented as your own, I settled on a liquid ratio of 60%-62%. I used Velveeta for this purpose in the past, not understanding how it worked as a clump-killer. The sodium citrate sauce packed in the flavor. This is one of those things that really needs to be measured in weight. 20 seconds will do, but you need to use it fast before it cools down. Sodium Citrate is the sodium salt of citric acid and the ingredient used to give club soda both its sour and salty taste. My first batch was with a shredded Mexican blend cheese. If you use a salty cheese along with a salty stock, you are going to be thirsty. Kitchen for a link to buy it online. But our most common use is to buffer acidity. You generally want around 2 to 3 percent of sodium citrate per sauce. a sprinkle of smoked paprika. Is it directly related to the amount of liquid being used? (Or pour into a big bowl and dip away.) This works. I’ve done a lot of Experiments with the liquid and water is the best, it allows the cheese flavor to shine. Combine... #cheese … Pour in just enough cooking liquid (i.e. Recently however I have been trying to duplicate the sharp flavor that is found in cold pack cheese spreads. But still a lot softer than Velveeta. Add grated cheese. Citric acid will lower the pH level and will result in a soupy or grainy texture instead of a silky emulsion. To thicken it, zap it for 20 seconds with more cheese. To make your own cheese soup first choose the flavors you are aiming for. Depending on how firm you want your cheese to be you can use anywhere between 0% liquid for a firm molded cheese, up to 35% less firm slice.